i suspect. they overplayed go to go did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy shrek. never go on i'm sorry and on this show we were the a little picture of what's actually going going on we go beyond identifying a problem you're trying to rational debate a real discussion critical issues facing america by him are you ready to join the movement then welcome the third. longtime are going to washington d.c.

and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture today south africa and the world celebrating the life of nelson mandela anti-apartheid leader and without statesmen who died yesterday at the age of ninety five but who was the real mandela and why is the american media ignoring his truly radical past more on that in just a moment radio host an actor's job that is and right now the debate in washington is over what can be done to help those in poverty but that's not really the question we should be asking about to hop on a porter author of prosperity works about wiping out poverty all together in tonight's conversations with great minds. never. never. and never. there you get. a nice. one and not. even.

that was how nelson mandela concluded his inaugural address as president of south africa on may tenth one thousand nine hundred four but eva as he was affectionately known by millions of his countrymen died thursday at the age of ninety five even in death mandela remains a towering figure a symbol of the enduring values of human dignity and resistance is like us he will live on in the law in the minds and memories of countless people around the globe world leaders begin paying their respects almost immediately after him in dollars passing was announced yesterday afternoon here's how president obama responded to the news. my very first political action the first thing i ever did that involved an issue or policy or politics was a protest against apartheid. i would study his words and his writing. the day he was released from prison. gave me a sense of what human beings can do when they're guided by their hopes and not by

their fears. and like so many around the globe i cannot fully imagine my own wife without the example that nelson mandela set. and so long as i live i will do what i can to learn from him. like president obama many other young americans growing up in the seventy's and eighty's cut their political teeth in the anti-apartheid movement for them mandela a political prisoner for twenty seven years was an icon of perseverance in the face of injustice inspired them then and he continues to inspire them now but mandela wasn't a hero to everyone reagan called him a terrorist and to this day many republicans will not forgive his friendship with cuban leader fidel castro he was actually on the u.s. terror watch list until the last year the george w. bush presidency now more than ever is a time to take a look back at the legacy of nelson mandela and his often complicated relationship with the united states and its leaders for more on this i'm joined now by activist

joe madison host joe madison show on sirius x.m. joe welcome back you know if you reminded me when you were just reciting the way that conservatives. treated nelson mandela and the whole apartheid regime what people fail to remember is that former congressman ron dellums and the former congressman william gray. both members of the congressional black caucus introduced legislation a bill to sanction south africa economically when took them fifteen years. to get that bill through fifteen years and when it finally passed by the house and the senate ronald reagan vetoed it and then that. house had to turn around and congress turn around and overrode his veto that was

what you heard in part president obama talking about and it's ironic i smiled because the first time that i actually got arrested what we call act of civil disobedience was at the south african embassy. and you know tom. last night i was and i was in columbus and we were paying tribute to rosa parks because the day nelson mandela died that december fifth was the same day that the mother marie bus boycott started the same day and so there was a group paying tribute to congress woman joyce. beatty who represents that history and the thing that was so fascinating is i interviewed last night we did our tribute danny glover who by the way his first act and first awareness of nelson mandela was when he was

a student in college and then two decades later he played nelson mandela but he said you know here's the thing that was that really stuck out in his mind that people called nelson mandela after his release from prison twenty seven years. called him a communist because if you remember when he came to the united states it was to raise money for the a.n.c. and conservatives went bonkers all they called him a communist because he embraced by the castro and he said wait a minute we wanted the united states to be our friend. fidel castro was do with what that was our friend was our friend and you called me a communist excuse me he said. churchill. and roosevelt embraced stalin during world war two and you called them allah so.

that was the essence of nelson mandela that's the statesmanship that i think is really a major part of his work with yeah i think so too and his ability to. to bridge divides to to reconcile your irreconcilable to deal with those who absolutely have stated in some cases right to his face and in many cases even far worse than that you know to deal with them who have said that they would not do with him because some ways reminds me of what the current president is our our president is going through and for many of the same reasons right exactly because you know he understood you and you had to cooperate with your enemy to sometimes move the for the greater the greater good and and you know. you hit it right on the head i mean. we were going over quotes of nelson mandela

and he said the reason he was bitter people you know people think he wasn't bitter of course he was bitter and but he said he understood that that if i when i walked out of there and decided not to be better decided to free myself i also free the people who put me in jail you have to understand he freed white south africans because their biggest fear their biggest fear was oh hell if they get power they're going to do to us what we've done to them all be these over one hundred plus years and he came out and said no and so he was a comfort. two after comments even at the risk of of losing quite honestly support from those who felt wait

a minute it's time for revenge it's time for played payback and that was that's that's why south africa progressed the way it did it really in his the arc of his life is a remarkable story don't inspire in story there's i'm curious your thoughts on the economics from that i had on my radio show today kind of two different views of mandela from a guest one was a fellow who's now a professor at university in durban who was a member of the administration of mandela's from ninety four to ninety seven and in charge of economics and for an economist and and he said that mandela went to the davos meeting i guess it was and one of the meetings and the i.m.f. world bank meetings and came back and said you know let's try this stuff let's let's do this you know kind of open markets free trade stuff and he said basically the chicago boys walked in and said here's how to make your country prosperous and

the mandela administration and this fellow was you know part of that had just kind of bought a lot of that hook line and sinker and the result is that right now poverty is worse than it was when mandela came in and and and he said you know this guy was not to blame ben nella for this use of this guy was a politician it was an economist but he said the the these right wing economists have got their teeth into south africa in a way that is tearing the country apart and he said he said i see the same thing in what i read in the international newspapers of what's happening in the united states lawyer and isn't that the robot that you know that people on the left particularly you know you could not get comments are saying about about president obama i mean it's the same thing i i'm not an economist and you know or. an elected official a leader that hast to process you know what will our country to prosper but i do agree that somehow economists and elected officials people in charge of public

policy have got to find some way to eliminate income in inequity this is this is destroying not only the united states middle class but as you've traveled around the world we want to sedan together it is either the very rich we saw the people with the mercedes and lived in homes and the people who literally lived in cut and had nothing and so somehow bad has to be figured now mandela remember he didn't even become president to destroy south africa he had to figure out a way to maintain it and then the most difficult part is what president obama is facing now and what quite honestly they're facing throughout europe and mostly around the world is how do you narrow narrow that gap and i think it has to do with getting the predators out there not getting what the predators are either you know

i see this as as in this minute we have left before the break here i see this as as predators coming in to the you know we have fans but savannah south and no offense guns about it that's absolutely right and they you know i was just watching our t.v. for we came on and they were talking about the corruption and how they're trying to suggest it's a modern day phenomenon when really corruption. went haywire during the cold war and that most leaders in africa in parts of your they don't keep their money in their homes you know and these bankers. they protect the pay. and enhance the corruption because they know whose money is who and where it is and then they run for political and then iran will get about iran or with us west bank and you go on hey you know now i'll take charge now and i'll get all and you know we'll be right back with more with joe madison.

well. it's technology innovation all these developments from around russia we've got the future covered. and. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. pleasure

to have you with us here on t.v. today. we're talking about the life and legacy of nelson mandela with radio host and activist joe madison and joe the impact of nelson mandela in the first

part of our conversation was really about is. the consequence of him in south africa or around the world what how much impact do you think he and his life had in the united states arguably i guess that's where we start well i think it depends on on. on who you talk to and their perspective as i was coming here preparing for this segment i. said the one thing that happened it made people of my generation recognize the impact we can have globally the plot to that you know the most of our struggle was domesticity it was civil rights it was martin luther king. only an individual there were only a couple individuals i can think of paul robeson w.b.

the boy is. a mouth a man who you know would go to the united nations and say that discrimination against african-americans negroes in those days was a global issue and that the united nations should get involved and but it didn't really register with us what what happened was that south africa in particular the demonstration that kicked off at the south african embassy. it we recognized our it's not a word our global. we recognized look our struggle really is a global struggle because simultaneous to these civil rights struggle domesticity here in the united states there is you know there was the the the fight against colonist on the continent of africa and south africa was a major a major part of that and so we became global and then you remember college campuses

you probably remember this remember we start talking about disinvestment you know and we're you know most of us didn't have a dime in the stock market began everywhere colleges look at colleges and we didn't really know what that you know what all of it meant and people began to couldn't make their relationship. to people thousands of miles away yeah i think it inspires movements to this day and so i think that yes i think that absolutely it doesn't aspire moments to this day it connects all of us we see and then it sort of goes to what martin luther king said at the time that where we were it's a small planet where a village global is now out of that well and speaking to that this is what nelson mandela had to say as he got out of prison take in one thousand nine hundred ninety peddling. through was thank you thank you

thank you i think six hours thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you i was i think thousand thanks thousand thank you thank you thank you thank you i was shot through so he was basically i'm here for everybody that's it well that's absolutely right because once again it if what he's really saying there is look the base in the only basic difference between all of us is the is a biological. the amount of mail in our bodies and that's really the only the

attorney's threads are that that's all it's that's all the basically that's the only everybody all of us want basically the same thing but what's interesting is you hear the dates he gives nine hundred sixty four it goes back to just what we talked about our second you know sixty five sixty six that that's absolutely right and all of the incidents and all that that's good and but see them in the media at the time didn't make those connections and so we you know it was certainly we start reading and connecting and those of us who were fortunate of me. to participate in discussions like we're having now look we didn't have this kind of program on t.v. where you didn't have for that for the most part these kind of discussions that we're we're having now but you know they're the fascinating thing is a young south african called me who was born in one nine hundred eighty two he said you could be arrested. if you had a photograph of nelson mandela in your home that you never knew who would come into

your home you never know who would not down the door now let's go back to the one nine hundred sixty's and seventy's most people black people will remember that there were always three photographs on the mantel martin luther king john kennedy and robert and maybe there would be a fourth jesus christ but but but but in south africa. they said when nelson mandela and others went to prison remember for the life of bake they could not even possess an image of those men they were like ghosts they were gone they were in with no intention of ever seeing them again and that's why you had literally tens of thousands of people mostly young people showing up because they wanted to see what this man looked like they had never seen what they never saw and you got to remember in south africa this was the date and this is when they had passed books

you had to have a pass book and if you didn't have a pass but this young man told me his father was arrested and was sent to prison for a year for simply not having a passport when he was stopped by the south african police and he could not see the father for one whole year your papers please your papers that's absolutely that's amazing so why in your mind what is the state in the united states what's the state of race relations united states where how we help where how we come how are we doing what do we need to do what lessons can we learn along the well but but it depends it's look first of all racism is global let's just be honest i mean we we know that there are elected officials for example i can think of the woman's name right now in italy who was you know. images of her being a monkey her fellow legislators and. using offensive

racial slurs against a situation that just happen in france racism is global and it is it really is about is it not power now how far have we come. i'm fond of saying that in america we are culturally conditioned to believe that white is appearing black is inferior. culturally the gilded dick gregory riff that's margaret. and that and that and that unfortunately black is undervalued under estimated in marginal the reality is we have an entire generation that is being reconditioned culturally they now have gone to school they now work they now live they now marry and guess what they're surviving not only are they surviving but once again we're finding out we

all want the same thing life we want liberty we want the pursuit of happiness you know what i think one of the best things i heard president obama say yesterday that just counters what the tea party and other conservatives are trying to suggest and that was that president obama was demanding equal outcome in his speech on the economy it's just that that is a bold faced lie what he said and if you read the text was he was he wants equal opportunity corps that's really all people have asked for you you know we know that there's not going to be equal outcome but people should have equal opportunity and i think that's how we developed time as a as a country and it's a work in progress it's really is a work that will always be. people time who will who will feel superior who will have a racial smugness about them and these are the people who are culturally conditioned

and culture is a hard thing to over overcome it's so ingrained in us it's an ideal made a way for to die out happening well and renown remember remember oprah winfrey got in trouble saying that really but you remember she said she said there look just like the dinosaurs there know if there's a time when. this will have to die out i but i think it's i think that's actually what what it what you have to but you have to be very careful before they die. they can't hate israel identify at the feet and that's why you see a you know you still see this resistance in this country but thank god you have nelson mandela of fascinating to hear him tell police the regime play bill cosby's life on the cause me show said that said that he and the guard talking about

cultural conditioning would watch the cars be shipped. at robins. and when he met felicia reese he said thank you and she said thank me for what we want because the show and back show and you saw the heart of my car. the that's the cultural considering it on top and it really is so martin luther king was. a radical i mean martin luther king was outspoken about economic justice both for blacks and whites here as outspoken about union rights human rights spoken he was outspoken about american imperialism aggressively outspoken on american and other all that stuff has been glossed over each wire opposed the vietnam war exactly all the stuff has been glossed over in the in general in the corporate media in the characterizations of martin luther

king and it's all been turned into oh it's just about all right i'm so proud of you and so happy that you are one of the few. television political analyst that has acknowledged it well thank you and in the fifty seconds ago last year how do we avoid that happening with nelson mandela you don't the reality is you don't you have programs like this you have people who understand the history understand history you got to remember you talk him out of two generations of pants that don't know the history now they're fascinating this new movies out mandela i would tell all the young folk listening and some of the older ones who have forgotten go see mandela how many people know it took fifteen years that the united states was one of the last countries to sanction south africa to sanction economic sanctions most of us either have forgotten or you've got two generations that didn't know a thing about it go see mandela go see the fact that he transformed as he went

along you know and the reality is. and closing the reality is that they pick that part which is most comforting yeah and that's why i'm there and that's why we need to keep pushing the the rest of it this man was a revolutionary he did he he was not well and i was so so with jesus there you go there right. now to say i so much it's always great to have it coming out both in a conversation about an economic inequality united states has to do with how we soften the blow up poverty about how we can make life easier for those struggling to get by what if there were a way to eliminate poverty altogether more on that with on a porter president and c.e.o. of prosperity works inside conversations with great minds right after this break. from countries rich in natural resources are the poorest africa is a colony it's a colony of the big corporations it's

a colony of someone's home leaders who are under the thumbs of the big corporations so they have to beg from the world bank's development of social programs goes to pay back debts well the country is drowning under the amount of debt that they had and so every it is they would borrow money. and they would use that same amount of money to pay back oh this. money. the wages of debt. welcome to nice conversations with great minds with on

a porter on his own for powerful no nonsense approach to problem solving and strategy development. in such diverse fields as business education health and human services on is the president and c.e.o. of prosperity works an organization that creates statewide initiatives in new mexico to develop and test high impact strategies to build the opportunities knowledge and relationships required for all new mexicans to achieve economic security and prosperity on the border joins me now in studio on it's a pleasure to have you with us my pleasure entirely thanks for joining us i'd like to share first a couple of quotes with you the first is is from nelson mandela who just just passed away he said overcoming poverty is not a to ask of charity it is an act of justice like slavery and apartheid poverty is not natural it is man made and can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings and that was in our lifetime he said that in seventeen ninety five

thomas paine said to understand what the state of society ought to be it is necessary to have some idea of what the natural state of man is such as it is such as it is at this day among the indians of north america there is not in that state among the indians any of those spectacles of human misery which poverty and want to present to our eyes of all the towns and streets in europe poverty therefore is a thing created by that which is called civilized life it exists not in the natural state. when you and i were talking a couple days ago and you made an observation about we've been asking the wrong question when we start when we talk about poverty what's the wrong question what's the right question where are we closer and what are your thoughts on these quotes certainly the wrong question is to think about the.